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Uncommon Advice
Chris Evans Dives Into the Art of De-Scaling and Finding Success After Failure
Are you ready to unlock the secrets to scaling your business and becoming an exceptional leader? Join us as we sit down with Chris Evans, whose journey from Christian missionary to building one of the biggest online coaching businesses in recent years offers incredible insights and lessons. Chris emphasizes the importance of leadership, vision, and a strong value system as critical components for attaining success in any venture.
Throughout the episode, we discuss the concepts of scaling and descaling in business, delving into the significance of building deep roots and a solid foundation for long-term growth. Chris shares his thoughts on how to honor plateaus and avoid the pitfalls of unrealistic expectations, as well as the importance of balancing ambition with intentionality and self-awareness. Additionally, we touch on the impact of neglecting these aspects on family life and the necessity of descaling as a means to audit your business and create a more intentional approach to scaling.
Don't miss out on the valuable wisdom and guidance Chris Evans has to offer. Stay connected with him through his newsletter, podcast, and mastermind group to learn more about his work and benefit from his wealth of knowledge and experience in leadership, scaling, and maximizing your business journey. Follow Chris today to transform your approach to entrepreneurship and achieve the success you've always dreamed of.
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Let's dive in. So I'm excited to have you on, man, i'm excited you to join me today. Thanks for coming in on, thanks for buying me lunch. Yeah, hey, it's all took.
Speaker 2:That's it, i'm busy.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so I'm excited to have you in, man, and I'm going to dive right in. There's a lot we'll probably dive into and talk about today, but I just want to. you know, you've been a I don't want to kind of recap your story for you, but you've been a Christian missionary. You used to run product launches for some of the biggest gurus in the space to ultimately building one of the biggest online coaching businesses that we've seen in the last few years.
Speaker 1:And one thing I want to ask you is what is one of the skills or characteristics you believe because that's a big range of things, right, if you to go from one to the next what's one skill set or characteristic you believe? it required that you have that, made that possible for you.
Speaker 2:Man, only one.
Speaker 1:You can do more. You can do more. Do your top three, i think, what the level that we played, which was huge right.
Speaker 2:We had a lot of employees, huge team client roster. I think it all came down to leadership. Developing that skill of leadership was just probably the hardest one to develop and to grow into, because it wasn't natural Right. But we had over 150 employees, thousands and thousands of clients. So much responsibility And I was.
Speaker 2:I loved marketing. I was great at marketing. You could do that behind the scenes, but to grow and to scale a business, leadership is the number one thing that's required to get to the level that we got to, and I think that even a seven figure business right If you are managing people and team for to achieve a certain outcome, you have to be a good leader. If not like you will fail.
Speaker 1:It's inevitable You will fail.
Speaker 2:So I think leadership is probably and if I were to? add some more. I was going to take advantage of this and have the mic in front of my face A vision. I think is another big piece right. Leadership without vision and the ability to communicate that vision or rally people around that vision, You know it's almost impotent right, And so great leadership along with great vision could be a recipe for something very amazing, impactful, profitable for any organization.
Speaker 1:So, but you didn't start with that.
Speaker 2:So no.
Speaker 1:So what were some of the things you did along the way to become a better leader?
Speaker 2:Failed. I think we took risks We had drive.
Speaker 1:That's what I had.
Speaker 2:That was the thing that got me to leadership. Right Is drive and ambition. And I knew I wanted more than what I had in my life. So I came from a. I was a missionary which I had no money.
Speaker 1:No, it was a joke.
Speaker 2:I grew up in a lower middle class family, so that was always a thing, and I didn't want to stay in that place, and so the drive and ambition and my ability to work and execute was the thing that got me to a place where, oh my God, we could potentially accomplish something amazing here. So taking that and just pushing forward and going for it and being okay with failure.
Speaker 2:I think it was the thing that got me to the place of opening my mind to what was possible, right, because I grew up in the church and vision wasn't a thing Like you didn't money was almost bad right. Like all of these things, these beliefs, or it was very hard to come by. And so to get into that place of drive and ambition and figuring out. There's so much more available to us if we have the right mindset led me to just, i think the runway was clear of opportunity, what was possible, and so getting to that place where we were producing a good amount of revenue and income almost out of the gate with our business.
Speaker 2:When I had Travgan Funnels, it was just man. The next thing that we need was to become a leader. That's how we grow. We actually take advantage of the opportunity that's in the marketplace.
Speaker 1:And so yeah, so drive ambition, willing to work, willing to put in the work where so many people aren't. It wasn't just having an idea and going here's my idea. Yeah, i want to make millions, so yeah, and that's huge right. So, in regards to leadership, you had to drive an ambition to answer that. but to go back to the question on leadership, like and you failed a lot to do that, to learn that But were the? did you hire people to help you with that, did you?
Speaker 2:That would have been smart. Did you read any of that? The higher mentor No, I actually wrote about this in my newsletter.
Speaker 1:No man a lot of it was learning on the job, and yeah, we read a lot of books, but the thing that's great about books.
Speaker 2:It does open your mind to possibility. The thing that books I feel like don't give you is coaching on the variables that you're confronted with. Right, because I have all the issues that from growing up and the patterns and my own issues as a person. Right, whether it was not knowing how to really govern my ambition and my drive and not to run over people as a young driven leader. That's something that only a mentor can help you with.
Speaker 2:And I didn't have the awareness on that and that it would be really wise to even hire a leadership mentor coach, Because what we put value on what I put value on was the growth, the strategy, all those things. But not actually being a business owner which essentially is being a good leader right. And so that was something that we missed that I would.
Speaker 2:if I could go back in time, I would at 100% hire some kind of leadership coach or mentor slash CEO, Because my drive and my ambition led me to keep going even though I failed with people, even though I failed with processes And I had vision for huge revenue right, taking advantage of the huge opportunity in that I didn't have vision for what it looked like to be a great leader and how to utilize people in the best possible healthy way right, that was good for them the organization, all those things. So there's a cost to everything And I think you can invest into some type of mentor or the cost is learning time, paying the emotions of it And that's the way by default that I ended up choosing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think as entrepreneurs, we tend to bang the head against the wall. It's the best way to go, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i figured out the hard way.
Speaker 1:Read every what you said. I'd not or reinforce what you're saying. Leadership, that's the one thing that I've been really Working on improving right, like figuring out, but once again, you don't know until you're in it. Yeah right, you don't, you don't. Sometimes you can have the plan of leadership, but until you're faced with the challenges and you guys have faced some big challenges going from, you know, just being you and your partner at the time to like where you where you grew to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what do you think? one of the What's a, it's what's one challenge, you think that really stands out to you, that you learned a lesson from?
Speaker 2:So, we made a decision back in 21. That was not a good decision in hindsight and The decision-making I think was actually good. The actual decision was not good, because the information and the data that we had was not good.
Speaker 2:So that's a huge highlight because that had multiple order consequences that were negative So. I think as a leader someone who wants to grow a scale of business, you have to become a great decision-maker you can be the best decision-maker in the world, but if the data that you're making that decision on isn't good, it's not accurate, it doesn't matter, you're already starting at a point of failure, right with having inaccurate information. So That's a huge learning lesson that now bring to my clients like, okay, man, you could be a great decision-maker. What's the actual information? Have we verified?
Speaker 2:the information that we're making this decision on is actually rights incorrect.
Speaker 1:Because if it's not it doesn't matter, right well, your decisions are only as good as the data input that you've got right. Absolutely Bad, bad, bad decisions.
Speaker 2:Good data, good decisions Yeah it's, it's simple, but we undervalue it and we underestimate it, and so the other part of it is Right you're making certain assumptions in that process. Usually the assumptions have a positive bias because of ego hubris, past successes, and so even if you are making a decision like, oh yeah, like we're gonna win, Because that's what we do and that's what it seemed like for the case, for us, like even people told us like do everything you touch is gold and You start believing that own stories, man, that and, and you have wrong data.
Speaker 2:I. It can end up being a Not a good situation, so I think that's part of what happened to us and the challenges that we had in our business is that we just assumed that, oh man like, oh, figured out or whatever.
Speaker 2:But when you have a lot, of those stacked up, and then you have a lot of things you have to figure out. Maybe you made a bad decision or you had bad data. It's hard to deal with that, and so that's the challenge that we had and so I think it's important in that process. As a leader, you could be a CEO of a Three person team. It's still the same thing, maybe different level, where you have to always consider the multiple order consequence of the decision that you're making positive and negative Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's huge, so you need to look at both sides as as business owners and I know I've done this in the past.
Speaker 1:I found out it where it's like I only look at the scenario and go We're going to do this and this is the result We're gonna get. I don't, i don't. There have been many times where I don't go Well, what if this doesn't work? What it? what's the outcome? and I've been in that scenario And I think it we tend to lean towards. We bet on ourselves a lot. Right, and when we bet on ourselves, failure doesn't really play into the thing of what we're not used to failure We're not really thinking that's a possibility. But if you don't look at it and go, hey, at the end of the day, it's data, not drama. And when we start believing our own story sometimes of like, oh, we're always good, we're always gonna succeed, we're always gonna be great, we're always gonna do this, we're not going it's when we start believing in that we start moving on emotion, not data and so absolutely man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's, it's a, it's a disciplined approach really, and I think that's what you end up learning over time and again why it's so important to have A mentor, that's kind of the position I'm in now as an advisor and I kind of see myself as as a board member for several businesses Where I can bring that perspective and that lens, because, if not, what you tend to have is an organization, a CEO, a team, people that are ungoverned, undisciplined and so there's a lack of mitigating potential risk.
Speaker 2:And that's, i think, the job Oftentimes of the leader is always looking at you, know what's around the corner, what's the potential.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we know the upside.
Speaker 2:We're gonna dominate the internet, whatever scale to the moon. But who's? actually looking at the potential downside in the risk and how do? we mitigate and hedge that and that's a big process of. What I'm constructing now from different frameworks that I'm building to help people with that as I didn't have that, even with my mentors Do I had mentors, but none from that perspective.
Speaker 1:It was all about growth and scale in the upside. There was very little on, okay, well, how do we?
Speaker 2:mitigate and how do we look at the downside and consider that and make sure that We don't go down right?
Speaker 1:so Let's dive into scale, because scale is something that a lot of people like to talk about, and you will get into your perspective now, but let's talk about your perspective when you are scaling to a large, eight-figured Organization. When you guys did that, talk about some of the things you did, some of the things you went through, the importance of scaling if you're gonna scale right, because a lot of people talk about how it's a buzzword right, i want to scale.
Speaker 1:I want to build my business, i want to make more money and all that stuff, and they're looking at more in a revenue aspect And then anything else right, because scales a word that people associate with more money and that's not always the case. So what are some of the lessons? Let's have a conversation, or just around the concept of scale and what it really truly means to do it in a company.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Yeah, i'm a guy that done, did it, you know, you know scaled multiple eight-figure businesses. The last one, we got to that place in five months Like it was a rocket ship, and so I think with scale if you're actually scaling. There's so many important things to know again that I wish I had known. I love talking about scale, love growth and the thing I talk a lot about now though is descaling. And it's all about the value system that you have and if you want long-term scale, which I think ultimately is, is long-term growth.
Speaker 2:You, you can't just consider up You also have to consider down right. So, if you've ever been in New. York and in the trade center, right, if you look at the new building. Like how far down they went into the ground before they built this crazy massive building. That's like hundreds of stores. People don't have that perspective and that value system of okay scale isn't only up, but how do I go down? How do I build deep roots and deep foundation?
Speaker 2:And those are the things that I'm just like oh my God, why did nobody tell me this? Because my value system was only up, it was only more, it was only accumulating greater. Because that's what we typically get the praise for, that's what we feel the accolades and maybe the profit and the money. And all the things that come along with that, but I'm really interested in longevity and sustainability And for that you have to go down.
Speaker 2:So for me down is the identity of the leader right, who they see themselves as the value system of the leader, but also organizationally If you don't have an organizational identity and value system there's a very good chance that you will not last that the thing will topple over because, if you have the right identity right value system, then you won't turn up when you shouldn't turn up, And so those are things. I think that are really, really important in scaling from a long-term perspective.
Speaker 1:And so now.
Speaker 2:I think there's so much value in descaling And for me, descaling is a process of sometimes turning down but also honoring plateaus in your business, so that you can make sure that the infrastructure is good, that your processes are good, that your people are good, that you're diversified, that you are considering the risk, that you are considering the downside, because what we would always look for is hitting a higher high right, That was like oh, dude, we maybe we did a million this month.
Speaker 2:that's not enough, Like we had to do a million one, a million two, a million three.
Speaker 1:And I think a part of where that comes from?
Speaker 2:is this crazy thing that we, as entrepreneurs, have. And I think this is why identity is so important, because we're always looking for something. We're looking for satisfaction, right, we're looking for achievement accolades, all those things oftentimes from a broken identity.
Speaker 2:So for me, when I got into the business and it's like man, if I could do $100,000 a month, oh my God, i'm gonna be the man right. I'm gonna feel the same that I've been looking for. Dude, our first full-time month in business, we did 127. And that last said that elation was like five minutes, then it was like a crash.
Speaker 2:What the heck So that's like, well, it must be 200 a month, no, it must be five, like just never getting to that place. And there's this thing actually called a rival fallacy, where we think that, oh, if. I hit that level if I accumulate that thing, if I get that new car, that new house, i will have finally arrived, and it never actually is the case.
Speaker 2:So when you operate from that place and you think that, oh yeah, i value this number or this number of employees. That's gonna be the thing that finally gives me that thing I've been looking for. It never happens.
Speaker 1:So many entrepreneurs experience depression right Because we go through these processes where we think we're going to, we think we're going to feel successful, there's that mountain that we're trying to get to the top of, and then we get to it and we realize that was just a foothill in the next mountain we're climbing And we get to that and we're like, oh, we're still not at the top of the mountain, because we reach it and we don't have that feeling I've been through it where I've reached goals and I don't have that feeling of excitement or gratitude or sometimes, unfortunately, of wow, i made it, i did it. This is what I wanted to accomplish.
Speaker 1:It's more of next. That wasn't. That didn't feel like you just said. It didn't feel how I thought I didn't. I'm not not where I want to be. What's next, what's next, what's next, and you see a lot of entrepreneurs that end up going through that route and it's like accumulating more and more and more and more. So you, i want to step back. You mentioned a thing on your if you don't have the foundation of your value system in place, can?
Speaker 2:you give me an example of that. Yeah. So, for example, my value system was more, it was higher, highs, it was speed right, Always going fast versus valuing slow and steady right, And that being how, what we adhere to, that being what we made decisions based on. And I think if we would have valued slow and steady right, Valued long-term longevity, valued lifetime value of clients versus just our ability to acquire clients, then our decision making would have been a lot different right.
Speaker 2:We wouldn't have been concerned of oh, we just have to hit a new level this month and next month and but things that are really important and the things that keep businesses around for a long time. So that's why I consider part of a healthy value system Are the things that maybe they're not sex appeal, right, but they're really important and they bring longevity and health and it's just something that we just missed. Man, we didn't, we didn't have Like everybody has a value system.
Speaker 2:Every business has a value system. Oftentimes it's not an intention that people make. It's just something that comes from how we grew up or what we watch them do on YouTube. You know, like all these things, that we see that because that seems cool, right, we elevate it, we give value to that thing, Whether it's the speed of our company, the speed of our growth, the cars, the things that we have that are seen, that people can actually praise you for right.
Speaker 1:What are the unseen?
Speaker 2:things that aren't necessarily sexy but that are really healthy, And that's what we. I didn't have that I wasn't intentional about it.
Speaker 1:Which you're saying it was unhealthy. How did that, when you were so focused in your value system with speed and growth and growth? how did that impact your?
Speaker 2:I know you're a big family guy.
Speaker 1:right, you're a big family man, one of the reasons you and I get along so well, right? How did that impact your family So?
Speaker 2:I've always been a pretty present father. I've always been around. I didn't I always. I always tried I would try to be intentional until I'd be gone long out of town. So, my presence was always there, but my state was not always good, and what I mean by that is I would be around, but I wasn't actually in a good place mentally or emotionally because I was anxious about man. are we gonna hit this goal this month? And so I would maybe be short tempered or just didn't know how to process through that.
Speaker 2:And so carrying anxiety and carrying maybe guilt or shame or those emotions. Your family feels that right And that can become your culture in your house. And I think that's something that I didn't have an awareness on, and so my thing and how I grew the business I think I grew up from a place of insecurity emotional insecurity, financial insecurity and a lack of self-worth, and so, like, your kids pick up on that stuff, and so what I've seen from my kids are some of the same patterns where they might wanna operate at a place to do things to earn love.
Speaker 2:Do things to earn worth, right Self-worth. And that's not always inherently bad, like there are some utility to that, but those kinds of things I don't think it's good to train our kids in right.
Speaker 1:Because my kids don't have to earn my love.
Speaker 2:They don't have to earn worth They're like. inherently they are that thing, They are loved, they are worthy right.
Speaker 1:But when I look back on my childhood.
Speaker 2:These are things that I developed, and that's why I became ambitious right And because I wanted to earn something that I felt like I didn't have. And so I think that's where my state was as an entrepreneur. dad Love my kids to death, but I didn't have a deep awareness on that level And when you move at such a pace and such a speed. Intention can easily go out the window, awareness can easily go out the window And I think, as for entrepreneurs, this is one of the most important things, because we are dangerous in such a great way.
Speaker 2:We can also be dangerous in a bad way, right, And this is why I think you see so many marriages break up and families, their kids, hate their parents who are entrepreneurs. I think a lot of this because they don't hold a place with patience and joy, and kids don't have to perform to earn something from their parents, It's just who they are And so that's given and parents being at a place entrepreneur parents specifically a healthy place to have that overflow to give to their spouses and their kids. And so yeah, that's huge man.
Speaker 1:Thank you for that. But in regards, let's go back to descaling a little bit.
Speaker 2:You touched on it but let's break it down.
Speaker 1:We talk scaling, but let's break down descaling, descaling is hard. Well, give us the 35 minute version, not just kidding. So let's talk a little bit about descaling And because I know that's when you, probably when you dropped that term earlier there's probably people watching and listening and going. What the heck does that mean, right? So I know you, you talk the importance of descaling and how you're focused on it, but let's talk a little bit about some of those core factors.
Speaker 2:Something I've had to learn, as we just went up, up, up, up, up, up up, but you look at so many businesses they might go up, but oftentimes there is a there. There will be a decline or there will be a plateau. I know for our online space. Nobody ever talks about that because nobody values that right.
Speaker 2:It's only you only value up, especially dude, if you got a hockey stick, you're the man or you're the woman, but it's just not natural law. Healthy things are pruned And I think it's very easy, especially when you're scaling, and even more so when you're scaling fast that there's going to be a blow, So you're going to add add things onto the business that aren't really actually contributing to the value of the business and for the clients and for the marketplace. So it's very important, I think, to have seasons of descale When you actually are aware of the business.
Speaker 2:okay, where are we going? What does it look like? What's the vision? And then you audits to the business.
Speaker 1:You audit the processes, You audit the things that you're paying for. You audit the people.
Speaker 2:You audit all the contributions to the business What's working, what's bringing a lot of contribution, what's not. And for me, descaling is essentially taking a step back and maybe pulling back, because when you look at growing a business, to grow a business in a healthy way, you should always have capacity, and I talk about floors and ceilings and business growth and stuff. Oftentimes we try to scale and grow a business just because that's what you're supposed to do versus scaling and growing a business from a place of power.
Speaker 2:So in my mind, descaling maybe turning back, taking a step back, puts you in a place of capacity right Gives you room and margin, And that could be very practically like okay, like this person's not working out, Can we put them on a process improvement plan? or maybe there's not the right person to be on this bus, and so maybe having that conversation with that person, or maybe multiple people, to free up a seat for someone else, or just freeing up capital and having that audit that process to turn the business down.
Speaker 1:I think when I've had this conversation, I've coached people through it. it brings a sense of relief When you can actually say you know what, not only do you not have to turn the business up right now?
Speaker 2:you? can actually turn the business down There by default. Oftentimes is immediate margin And I think we have such a problem right now, today's day and age, and everybody feels this, Everybody that's listening to this right now. they feel it. It's a lack of margin, So descaling the idea of it, the theory behind it, is very quickly getting margin.
Speaker 1:so that you can reassess.
Speaker 2:Okay, what's the map, where am I at, what's the territory, What's the journey And how can I gain power, gain strain? gain margin for the next leg of the journey, and so that's the idea. The concept of it and it could be spending less money on teams, spending less money on software just auditing like what you have going on in the business, getting a very good handle on it and identifying what's necessity versus what's not, and for us man especially growing so fast, so easy to add things on that don't really contribute much to the business.
Speaker 2:you just got money going out, resources going out And people don't take that consideration. And, it's interesting, the value that people attach to even having a team, and I've had this conversation with the clients where they could not have any team and still have a great business and make just as much money. But they keep the team just because they value having numbers, like there's something there that they're able to boast about is having a team. It's not the actual people, it's just having bodies.
Speaker 1:And saying a bigger number.
Speaker 2:Say it in a bigger number. Someone asked you how many people work for you, because it's completely irrelevant question.
Speaker 1:It really is Yeah it's all about potency. You know we went throughout. You and I were just having lunch and talking about how I just went through a pruning season.
Speaker 1:And we tend to do it in business. I never really looked at it that way, like until you mentioned it, but it's true, i mean it's. We were cranking and things were scaling really, really fast for us. So we were growing and it was always like, how do we get to the next number, next number? And then part of our one of the industries we're in in the media side was starting to dip.
Speaker 1:But I had hired and built our infrastructure as if we were already at two levels up where we were right, as if my plan was to go there And I kept them people. I kept them around for an extra nine to 12 months. Then they probably needed to be realizing, instead of just saying, hey look, we're not going there right now, the market isn't there. The market will be there, but it's not there. And instead of pruning and giving those people opportunities to go elsewhere, i held onto them longer than we probably should have And we also were paying. We're you know we sent a lot of email, men's emails and our email volume. We started signing contracts to pay more than what we were sending And so I said to prune all that stuff just to improve profitability. But we also function much better as a team now doing the exact same thing as we had with all those same people.
Speaker 1:So and it's less stress because you're not worried about Oh man, I don't have anything for this person to do. like it's at least myself over the years, when I've had someone that's working with me and I don't have enough stuff for them to do. It's one of two things, It's like one I don't want them to go to, but then I start getting resentful because they're not doing enough to get paid right, And so I think you create these, you know, fights inside your head and these emotions that you don't need to have if you just descaled.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there is a vision aspect of it. So vision for me is three dimensional, and I think you need to know what scale looks like three dimensionally, and so that means where are we going? Who's involved? What are the processes, what are the products? But also, I think there's a process of descaling.
Speaker 2:what that looks like, You know so let's say, if I'm at $500,000 a month, i should have very clear vision on what that looks like, how I'm going to get there, the people that are needed to get there, but also, what is it like if I need to be at? 300 a month, right, and maybe the there's things going on with the economy and things are crazy And it's just not the momentum there that there has been. You know what does that look like And I think oftentimes since we only look at the upside and where we're going.
Speaker 2:we don't consider that And even having rules and processes in place and even triggers of okay. When does it make sense for us to actually turn down right And to maybe pull back a little bit? gather the troops so to speak, and get ourselves in a place of power and maybe stack some more money and just be smart and wise and get stewards of the resources that we do have. So when the opportunity does present itself that we can turn back up. And I was having a conversation with a client, an equity client, to the day even about plateauing.
Speaker 2:And there's so much value in plateauing in a business Because it gives you the ability to really focus on things that, again, are under the hood. They're maybe under the surface, It's not the sexy things, but it's processes, systems making sure that we have the right culture, you know, the right things in place so that when the wind's there, we put the sails up and we go right, But it's going to be good, it's going to be healthy And we're going to be at a place where we have margin to do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, man. a lot for these people to take in. No, no, i'm sorry. So since you've descaled and you've gone through this process of the moving over into more of a board member for companies to help them choose their bright, bright path, build their values, value systems determine whether the plateau is the right spot for them right now. How has that impacted your family going forward?
Speaker 2:In two different spaces.
Speaker 1:I asked this so for our viewers like I've got a you and I have known each other for years And I asked this in a place because I know there's a difference.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right So how has that? impacted. I think for me, there is less responsibility, right? I'm not carrying the thing. I'm just advising about, the thing that the deans carrying.
Speaker 1:So I think there's less stress from that point of view.
Speaker 2:I just don't have that weight that a CEO typically carries, so that's been really positive and beneficial.
Speaker 2:The other aspect too, and this is another, maybe another podcast episode but I think oftentimes we can get a place where we're doing the things that we're not good at, that we don't even like as CEOs, and so being at this place where I'm more a chairman slash board member, i can be in my zone, my genius place, and it just it gives me more energy right. It gives me the ability to even be at a better place at home, you know, with my wife, with my kids, and I'm not worried about things that I'm not even good at, but I'm just, i'm just forcing it or I just feel like I have to do it right, and so there's a lot of benefits in that And I think, ultimately, i think it gives me more leverage to, i think, when you're in that place especially doing things that you're good at it's a sweet spot.
Speaker 2:It means there's more opportunity again as a capacity thing, because we don't, we underestimate the amount of energy expenditure doing that there is. We put on doing the things that we don't like doing and that we're not good at, And so for me, being able to stay in that place and and being flexible and not having to be on zoom meetings all day, every day, You know it's a good thing, So I'm I'm excited about it.
Speaker 1:I can do it, i'm like. I'm, you know I'm I'm anti-meeting, but more and more we've been having more meetings. But you know, i've heard of people that spend their entire eight hours in an office and meetings all day. I've done that. I'm like I don't know how you do it, man, if the max I'm willing to give to meetings in a day is two, two hours And even then it's usually those can be done in 60 minutes.
Speaker 2:It's easy to fall into man, especially when you have a big business and it's kind of turned more corporate. But man, it's important to have the roles, man, and the disciplines and the boundaries. As a leader, that's a huge topic. Oh yeah, so typically have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, boundaries are important.
Speaker 2:I think.
Speaker 1:So you know what's crazy to me? I was reflecting before we started talking in here and I'm like you know what. You and I have lived in Charlotte both for a long time. You know the first time we hung out We live right down the street from each other First time we hung out.
Speaker 2:I don't remember.
Speaker 1:Utah.
Speaker 2:Seriously.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Colleen, yeah, when I joined, Upperescalade right, it's nice In Utah. And then the next time we hung out, San Diego. I'm like we spent all this time like in the same city and then we didn't hang out until I moved. The first time we hung out in Charlotte. Yeah, you were in California. I flew in from San Diego. It's kind of funny, it's kind of wild, but I'm glad you're back, or I'm glad I'm back and I'm glad we're spending more time together and growing. And with that said two things for you. What is something? I got two questions. One is what is one piece of uncommon advice that you would give our listeners today to help them succeed at a higher level.
Speaker 1:Slow down.
Speaker 2:Slow down, yeah, we live such a crazy.
Speaker 2:Again, it's something that the marketplace values the speed and a crazy pace. And again, this is why people, i think, are really anxious and depressed is because what we do is we look on social, we look online, we look at all these gurus on YouTube and we see what they have and so we feel like we're behind and so we accelerate. We fill our lives with so much versus valuing what we have in front of us right now and actually appreciating the amazing things our families, a nice cup of espresso, a great book and the actual work, the things that we should love and enjoy as entrepreneurs, because we get to create. And what if you didn't have to achieve this crazy goal that you've made up?
Speaker 1:in the next three months. What if it was 12 months?
Speaker 2:or 15, or 18, or 24, but it's again this thing that we feel. Like man, i need to speed up, i need to hurry up so I can get to this thing, because I'm gonna feel that thing when I get to that thing. It's BS, man. But what if I found joy today and what I get to create and the people I get to work with and the love and service that I bring to the marketplace, like you can, i'm telling you, i know these gurus, the guys that all these people talk about, and they don't have that thing. They're still chasing that thing. But I think what's available is finding that today in your life and eliminating hurry from your life. I think is extremely valuable. And that's what I've had the blessing to do in the last year some by choice, some not and it's been extremely valuable.
Speaker 1:It's difficult because my personality I've been in this so many years of like no, i do not like waiting in line.
Speaker 2:I don't like driving behind someone. slow It's always been push, push, push. But there is something powerful and amazing in the ability to actually go the speed limit right. And actually wait in line and maybe not turn your business up to level 10.
Speaker 1:So yeah, slow down Absolutely. That's huge man, that's great it's very uncommon, very uncommon. So next thing is I know that you've got your newsletter, you've got some podcast stuff you're doing. You've got your group your mastermind group. What's the best way people get to follow you, get to know you. Thank you, learn more about you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so if you go to chrisaevanscom slash newsletter, I'm writing weekly on a lot of these topics.
Speaker 1:Chris A Evans.
Speaker 2:Chris A Evans. Yep Dot com slash newsletter So yeah my weekly kind of just thoughts on scaling the, scaling growth, all the above, just taking the wisdom that I've gained and putting it into that free newsletter.
Speaker 1:So that's probably the best way.
Speaker 2:I'm on Facebook, you know. Sometimes, Sometimes yeah, you see my mug on there, easy to reach on there. But, yeah, open if anybody needs help.
Speaker 1:Awesome man, i really appreciate you jumping in here with me. Thanks for having me. Hey, listen to this. I might have to take the uncommon advice.